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constitution and not to grover norquist. what did grover norquist do? he took their quotes, called them up, he had conversations with them and he read them line by line their quote and essentially threatened them with primaries. he's the problem. if grover norquist wants to run government he needs to run office. >> you have people like saxby chambliss to indicate they were backing away from their pledge. grover norquist gets on the phone to them in the last several days and report of phone calls are that suddenly chambliss is going back a little bit maybe on what he had to say. so, i mean, do you think that his influence has waned? >> this is exactly what i'm saying is that, and chambliss is who i was thinking about. he threatens people. i do think his influence is reining. i think there's a crack in grover's armor and that's why he tried to shore it up last week by calling up people and intimidating them. it's time we hold him to task. he should not be allowed to hold the republican party hostage like he has. it's very irresponsible. do i think there's
constitution and not to grover norquist. what did grover norquist do? he took their quotes, called them up, he had conversations with them and he read them line by line their quote and essentially threatened them with primaries. he's the problem. if grover norquist wants to run government he needs to run office. >> you have people like saxby chambliss to indicate they were backing away from their pledge. grover norquist gets on the phone to them in the last several days and report of...
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every time we see a guy question grover norquist's power, they call up and apologize. what is it about going back to the alter every time if they don't matter, that particular man has to be apologized to. >> i don't think -- >> why did saxby do it? >> i think -- >> he's worried about -- >> i think what saxby is trying to do the hard work he's trying to do and grover knows, and everyone knows these taxes are automatically going up. some point in time -- >> it's december 3rd. ready? he got to get this done by december 3 1st under ideal circumstances. what is grover's role going to be the next three weeks? >> i think he's going to continue to be the guy against taxes. he's not going to change at all. >> if we don't have any taxes on the deal, there won't be a deal. the democrats -- >> there is no deal. the white house people have told me again and again that the president doesn't want to go over the cliff. he'd rather cut a deal -- >> let's talk about the taxes. >> but he's willing to on the tax deal. >> to get the taxes up on the rich. >> let me say -- >> finish this poi
every time we see a guy question grover norquist's power, they call up and apologize. what is it about going back to the alter every time if they don't matter, that particular man has to be apologized to. >> i don't think -- >> why did saxby do it? >> i think -- >> he's worried about -- >> i think what saxby is trying to do the hard work he's trying to do and grover knows, and everyone knows these taxes are automatically going up. some point in time -- >>...
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and it's like those presidential debates, grover norquist. when you're mentioned by name, we have to give you a chance to respond. you heard senator mccaskill. but how about the headlines this week? you have been front and center in the debate. here are some of the headlines. "the new york times" really stands out. is grover finally over? and then, this is really about the pledge that you introduced that is a pledge between these office holding republicans and the people who have elected them. it's not a pledge to you, as you often point out. the bottom line is, are you over? is this tax fight over? >> well, actually, that was last week's news. the president and mr. geithner have really changed the direction here. because there were a few people, including the senator you just had on, who were seduced into thinking, well, maybe i'll have a small, tiny tax increase and have real reform and move forward. >> you're talking about corker? >> and there were others who said -- and, look, corker wants tiny tax increases and very serious reforms. but
and it's like those presidential debates, grover norquist. when you're mentioned by name, we have to give you a chance to respond. you heard senator mccaskill. but how about the headlines this week? you have been front and center in the debate. here are some of the headlines. "the new york times" really stands out. is grover finally over? and then, this is really about the pledge that you introduced that is a pledge between these office holding republicans and the people who have...
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david, you heard congresswoman bass refer to grover norquist. i want to play what he said regarding this ominous threat as described to republicans who may not fall in line. let's play it. >> tea party 2 is going to dwarf ta tea party 1 if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> this was in reference to the president. he's threatening we will see a new, stronger tea party if we go off the cliff. >> yes. grover norquist also predicted an overwhelming victory by mitt romney and was proven wrong then, too. i think he and other republicans are playing a very dangerous game with their own political futures by failing to see the connection between this situation and the situation we were in around 1995 when there was a government shutdown. republicans thought they could drive this to the bitter end, and what happened? the american voters actually blamed them, the republicans, for what happened. i think it's a pattern in american politics when things happen that are, in effect, harmful government shutdowns, if you will, or breakdowns of process, the blame us
david, you heard congresswoman bass refer to grover norquist. i want to play what he said regarding this ominous threat as described to republicans who may not fall in line. let's play it. >> tea party 2 is going to dwarf ta tea party 1 if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> this was in reference to the president. he's threatening we will see a new, stronger tea party if we go off the cliff. >> yes. grover norquist also predicted an overwhelming victory by mitt romney and was...
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that is what you are seeing to it is not just anti-grover norquist movement. it is a realization that they have a political problem. >> a lot of positive signs for a deal. one is that grover norquist, who is kind of a ridiculous figure, it has been exposed as that and people are walking away. businessmen are in town saying we want predictability, and that is a good sign. but the indication from the white house is that obama is pretty dug in -- i want, i will break those republicans. maybe it is just a bargaining position, maybe he is making it, but the feeling is that he really does want to bust the other side. >> what happened in the debt ceiling fight is that they thought they could just do this in work is so they put it out in public. >> but he wants to raise the debt ceiling. >> that is part of the leverage that republicans have -- >> the best leverage if they have. >> obama thinks he has all the cards, he thinks he is napoleon, or perhaps lbj after his landslide. obama won this election by three points. 95% of republicans in the house won by a larger marg
that is what you are seeing to it is not just anti-grover norquist movement. it is a realization that they have a political problem. >> a lot of positive signs for a deal. one is that grover norquist, who is kind of a ridiculous figure, it has been exposed as that and people are walking away. businessmen are in town saying we want predictability, and that is a good sign. but the indication from the white house is that obama is pretty dug in -- i want, i will break those republicans. maybe...
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i'm stuck speaking to many more ceos than grover norquist is. he thinks it's silly. he thinks ceos are silly. i don't think they're silly. they control hiring in this country. many americans play for dinner. i don't think grover norquist cares about who is paying to dinner. he has a pledge. it's important to him and important to the people who agreed to it. i worry about dinner for people. i worry about rising above and dinner for people. he won't surprise it. ceos do. he has his principles. i went to college with him. he's a very nice man. very nice. >> you have a history. we should keep that in mind. >> sweet guy. likes the cliff. wants to jump over. favors recession. that's how i read that. recession isn't bad thing if you're a short seller. if you can go short, you can get your way. it could be big. >> it could be. >> it could be huge. you never know. >> at least for some period of time. >> yeah. >> there is a big analysis on the cover of "times" about talks as they stand right now. they say the president has been burned, scarred is the word they used by the prev
i'm stuck speaking to many more ceos than grover norquist is. he thinks it's silly. he thinks ceos are silly. i don't think they're silly. they control hiring in this country. many americans play for dinner. i don't think grover norquist cares about who is paying to dinner. he has a pledge. it's important to him and important to the people who agreed to it. i worry about dinner for people. i worry about rising above and dinner for people. he won't surprise it. ceos do. he has his principles. i...
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grover norquist also made some headlines this week for something he said on "meet the press." both of you, listen to this. >> that somebody is actually celebrating their faith and passing that onto me. i would respond happy hanukkah to you as well. >> okay. one second. that was not the individual that i introduced. but here is grover norquist on "meet the press." >> tea party two is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> so, ana marie, as sequels go, they don't often live up to the original. what do you think? >> i'm glad you came to me first so i can say tea party two electric boog aloo before jonathan does. the tends for sequ -- rules for sequels tend to be they have to be more violent. i'm not sure there really is a tea party two, and if anything i think it's a weaker tea party moving into this congress. i'm not sure what grover thinks. >> jonathan, what do you think? a tea party two? can anyone beat joe walsh of illinois, allen an west of florida? >> i don't think there's going to be a tea party two. do you remember "alien." it was good. "aliens"
grover norquist also made some headlines this week for something he said on "meet the press." both of you, listen to this. >> that somebody is actually celebrating their faith and passing that onto me. i would respond happy hanukkah to you as well. >> okay. one second. that was not the individual that i introduced. but here is grover norquist on "meet the press." >> tea party two is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> so,...
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grover norquist on "meet the press." if the president pushes us off the fiscal cliff tea party 2 is going to make tea party 1 look -- wharf grover! -- whatever, grover! >> sequels almost always are -- >> stephanie: suck. >> way worse than the original. >> stephanie: okay. gayle in syracuse. hello, gayle. >> caller: hi. >> stephanie: hi. >> caller: now, i was thinking, now i'm as concerned as anybody else about the fiscal cliff. but thinking -- you know that the new congress that is coming in has less of the crazy tea baggers than the ones that we're dealing with now. as my understanding that congress can write legislation that's retro active to the first of the year. it may not be such a bad thing going over it afterall. >> stephanie: gayle, i swear to god i understand people -- even the white house saying that would not be preferrable to do that and that markets may react. i'm starting to agree with you. the more i see mcconnell and boehner's comments and how unseriously they're treating this, the lack of specificity of
grover norquist on "meet the press." if the president pushes us off the fiscal cliff tea party 2 is going to make tea party 1 look -- wharf grover! -- whatever, grover! >> sequels almost always are -- >> stephanie: suck. >> way worse than the original. >> stephanie: okay. gayle in syracuse. hello, gayle. >> caller: hi. >> stephanie: hi. >> caller: now, i was thinking, now i'm as concerned as anybody else about the fiscal cliff. but thinking --...
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lori: grover norquist, tea party two-point oh. neil: it is interesting. it is hard to read whether there will be held back to pay for anyone who votes for any type of a tax increase. i think we have learned from this election, you know, back in the a very suicidal pact. i do not know if that threat is real. what is more real right now, the result we have to get a permit spending under control, has disappeared. when it came to spending, that is still -- by the way, the same people who are picking apart the tea party, john boehner is where he is now and the house enjoys the republican party it does now because of the tea party. i would not be so quick to dismiss all. connell: you still think we are all just playing around it we will get a deal done? neil: i would worry a bad deal. i think that would do more damage than good. connell: lori says she will be watching neil cavuto. neil: why won't you be watching? connell: i do not feel very well. i have to go to the doctor. [talking over each other] neil: i have many things to do while you are on, but i watch.
lori: grover norquist, tea party two-point oh. neil: it is interesting. it is hard to read whether there will be held back to pay for anyone who votes for any type of a tax increase. i think we have learned from this election, you know, back in the a very suicidal pact. i do not know if that threat is real. what is more real right now, the result we have to get a permit spending under control, has disappeared. when it came to spending, that is still -- by the way, the same people who are...
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. >> when we talk about that let's show what grover norquist had to say. he's the anti-tax pledge crusader. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> tea party two will dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> that's like say anaconda two will dwarf anaconda one. the sequel will be more intense. a poll find out last week that they found a majority of americans will blame the republicans in congress not the president for failure to make the deal. as we hear what grover says you see at any time other way. you say it will be the democrats. >> it could be. depending on what happens. if they keep posturing we can go off the fiscal cliff it won't be such a big deal i don't think that's where most democrats will end up. you they are president and a lot of people down in washington saying they don't want to go off the fiscal cliff. as far as grover norquist notices, i don't think republicans should be caving to a special interest of one, frankly. we do see some brave republicans coming out there and they should be supported because they are about fi
. >> when we talk about that let's show what grover norquist had to say. he's the anti-tax pledge crusader. this is what he had to say yesterday. >> tea party two will dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> that's like say anaconda two will dwarf anaconda one. the sequel will be more intense. a poll find out last week that they found a majority of americans will blame the republicans in congress not the president for failure to make the deal. as we hear what...
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norquist. until then find us at facebook.com/now with alex. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. good afternoon, andrea. >> good afternoon, alex. thank you very much. coming up here on "andrea mitchell reports," the road to nowhere. when will the real negotiations begin? we'll have the latest from chuck todd and chris cizilla. plus, the top democrat on the house weighs and means committee, sandra levin. what is hillary clinton's new read line in syria? former congresswoman jane harman joins us. and in the line of fire, we'll hear from one of the women challenging the pentagon's ban of women in combat. plus, musician, composure, teacher winston mar sal less on a quarter century of jazz lincoln center all that next on "andrea mitchell reports." want to try to crack it? yeah, that's the way to do it! now we need a little bit more... [ male announcer ] at humana, we understand the value of quality time and personal attention. which is why we are proud to partner with health care professionals who und
norquist. until then find us at facebook.com/now with alex. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. good afternoon, andrea. >> good afternoon, alex. thank you very much. coming up here on "andrea mitchell reports," the road to nowhere. when will the real negotiations begin? we'll have the latest from chuck todd and chris cizilla. plus, the top democrat on the house weighs and means committee, sandra levin. what is hillary clinton's new read line in syria? former...
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. >>> meanwhile, grover norquist making a new prediction should lawmakers fail to reach a deal. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four years of regulation taxes. he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party, too, is going to dwarf tea party one if obama pushes us off the cliff. >>> another major story from the weekend, it was an emotional weekend in the nfl and in kansas city as the chiefs took the field on sunday just 24 hours after a tragedy involving a key member of their team. police say linebacker jovan belcher shot and killed his girlfriend, the mother of his infant daughter. minutes later he took his own life in the parking lot of arrowhead stadium where the chiefs play right in front of his coaches. nbc's tan trareporter. >> reporter: kansas city head coach romeo crennel wiped a
. >>> meanwhile, grover norquist making a new prediction should lawmakers fail to reach a deal. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four years of regulation taxes. he wants to...
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lou: i told grover norquist, he must like tom cole lot because all he would say in response was interesting tactic. thanks for being with us. in the "moneyline" tonight, a stalemate in washington d.c. wall street's back today. the balance squeaking out of four. gain. s&p up less than a point, nasdaq slipping lower on the day. volume on the big board slightly heavier than usual. all the major indexes finished higher for the month. down 71 points. s&p and nasdaq both ended higher. the three biggest winners for the month, cisco systems up to nine 1/4%. home depot, bank of america, both of just above 6%. aaa now urging the environmental protection agency to halt the sales of gas with directional concentrations arguing the fuel blend known as e 15 with an additional 5% ethanol cause engine damage but that is not covered by most car warranties. the epa says cars made after the 2000's one mall can handle that fuel brand. triple late shows 95 percent of cars made before012 will not. up next, president obama meeting with everyone about the fiscal cliff, everyone except for the leaders in washington
lou: i told grover norquist, he must like tom cole lot because all he would say in response was interesting tactic. thanks for being with us. in the "moneyline" tonight, a stalemate in washington d.c. wall street's back today. the balance squeaking out of four. gain. s&p up less than a point, nasdaq slipping lower on the day. volume on the big board slightly heavier than usual. all the major indexes finished higher for the month. down 71 points. s&p and nasdaq both ended...
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. >> you mentioned grover norquist. he's making a new prediction, by the way. let's listen. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four bad years of regulation taxes. he wants to add higher taxes to that. tea party 2 is going to dwarf tea party 1 if obama pushes us off the cliff. >> so basically, jon, what grover norquist is saying there to members of the tea party set who have been elected, who were elected, is, you know, we're going to take everybody who is against us into a primary on your right. >> right. >> on the republican side. >> right. >> so the threat has been issued already, even before we begin negotiating what the package will be. >> oh, yeah. >> this is like political terrorism. >> well, it's certainly a clear bargaining position. i remember three
. >> you mentioned grover norquist. he's making a new prediction, by the way. let's listen. >> understand how ugly the next four years are going to get. everything in obamacare that obama didn't want you to focus on or think about, the 90% of his trillion-dollar tax increase was pushed over till after he got himself safely re-elected. all those regulations you're now hearing about, okay, those all hit after the election. we've got four bad years of regulation taxes. he wants to add...
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i spent a ton of time this weekend hanging with old college chum, grover norquist. he's as certain as ever that republicans who have impure thoughts about violating his no new tax pledge will be targeted at the primary level by tea party members. i'm taking this masterful behind-the-scenes player at his word that he controls almost all the republicans. because almost all of them signed his oath. so a deal could be tough. plus i'm now calling for no vacation without legislation. no vacation without legislation. because the holidays are slated to begin in a couple of weeks. which doesn't give enough time to get the job done. so you have one side that ins t insisting on tax increases, and then you have the other side which has pledged no tax increases which assure those deal can occur. after all, even if the president offered heavy-duty spending cuts like he did during the debt ceiling fight, the republicans can't compromise because of their blood oath in norquist. they aren't allowed to and the president's bottom line seems to have hardened. doesn't it seem to you lik
i spent a ton of time this weekend hanging with old college chum, grover norquist. he's as certain as ever that republicans who have impure thoughts about violating his no new tax pledge will be targeted at the primary level by tea party members. i'm taking this masterful behind-the-scenes player at his word that he controls almost all the republicans. because almost all of them signed his oath. so a deal could be tough. plus i'm now calling for no vacation without legislation. no vacation...
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joining me now, the man some democrats blame for the fiscal cliff impasse, grover norquist, president of americans for tax reform. and the many and as a finger to about fixing it, michael reagan, founder of the reagan group. i want to start with the republicans plan that they put on the table. they have been accused of doing nothing and all. they come up with their own plan which includes 800 billion in revenue from closing loopholes and eliminating deductions and then 1 billion in spending cuts. it is being rejected from the get go by democrats. grover, what do you say? >> i think the republicans had a very good plan called lorraine budget. they all voted for it in the house. it saves $6 trillion over the same decade, and they did not raise taxes and all. i really think of the president is not interested in compromising, and not sure it is wise with the republicans to keep moving in his direction. i suppose it gives you five minutes on the nightly news to say you are being reasonable, but the president keeps saying he just wants massive tax increases, no spending cuts. he wants to in
joining me now, the man some democrats blame for the fiscal cliff impasse, grover norquist, president of americans for tax reform. and the many and as a finger to about fixing it, michael reagan, founder of the reagan group. i want to start with the republicans plan that they put on the table. they have been accused of doing nothing and all. they come up with their own plan which includes 800 billion in revenue from closing loopholes and eliminating deductions and then 1 billion in spending...
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. >> i believe grover norquist. they should get the media cameras in their. stuart: let's get more on this. we have a special guest joining us. he should have been on varney & company many times. >> i hope this is the first of many appearances. great to be with you this morning. i am kind of in a foul mood this morning. i am going to say something. the three of you are going -- if the republicans just gave the president what he wants on these taxes, low, in the end, the taxes are going up. we still have a trillion dollar deficit. this does not solve anything. at best, even if they raise the money they think they will, and i don't think they will raise any money, they are still left with a trillion dollar deficit. how are you going to bring down a trillion dollar deficit? i think the democrats are on -- i had to get that off my chest. stuart: gm car and truck sales are up 3%. the stock, dead flat. sales up 3%. that is the car sales numbers coming in today. steve, i want to get back to you here. the democrats say, wait a second, wait a second, you raise taxes o
. >> i believe grover norquist. they should get the media cameras in their. stuart: let's get more on this. we have a special guest joining us. he should have been on varney & company many times. >> i hope this is the first of many appearances. great to be with you this morning. i am kind of in a foul mood this morning. i am going to say something. the three of you are going -- if the republicans just gave the president what he wants on these taxes, low, in the end, the taxes...
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grover norquist said why don't we just get the c-span and watch the sausage being made. it could be too scary. >> brian: they had him out there and he defended himself yesterday. he's doing a good job exactly defining what he's going for. he's not the angry guy everyone portrade himself. mr. #1: makes a point that washington smends too much. another story that everyone is talking about. kansas city chief's player who murdered his girlfriend, shot her nine times and killed himself. brad underwood has more from kansas city. good morning, brad. >> good morning, it has been an emotional high and low in the last couple of days in kansas city. they are continuing to learn more about the events leading up with the incident with javon and his girlfriend casandra perkins and what will happen to zoe. javon's mother the raise the three month old in long island. funeral arrangements haven't been made for casandra or javon. the first thing out of the head coach's mouth. thoughts and prayers going out to both families. javon a starter of the kansas city chiefs and his girlfriend was a
grover norquist said why don't we just get the c-span and watch the sausage being made. it could be too scary. >> brian: they had him out there and he defended himself yesterday. he's doing a good job exactly defining what he's going for. he's not the angry guy everyone portrade himself. mr. #1: makes a point that washington smends too much. another story that everyone is talking about. kansas city chief's player who murdered his girlfriend, shot her nine times and killed himself. brad...
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and today grover norquist, who is against any tax increase, has an idea. if you want to know who's negotiating in good faith, put it on tv. >> it's the president who's threatening to raise taxes on the middle class if he doesn't stomp his feet and fwet his way. he should get into a room with c-span cameras there so instead of hearing rhetoric like this, let's hear it in front of c-span cameras. if the republicans being reasonable, we'll see that. if they're not, we'll see that. got to have cameras in that room. >> i personally love c-span as do cnn contributors l.z. granderson and will cain. welcome to both of you. let's start there. i would love to watch the negotiations in realtime. does mr. norquist have a dandy idea, l.z.? >> i don't think so. i really don't. i mean, how many people are watching c-span now? that's not the bash c-span. it's not as if this negotiation is going to last 45 minutes with 18 minutes of commercials. it's going to last for hours and hours and hour. i severely doubt the american people are going to sit there, they don't have tim
and today grover norquist, who is against any tax increase, has an idea. if you want to know who's negotiating in good faith, put it on tv. >> it's the president who's threatening to raise taxes on the middle class if he doesn't stomp his feet and fwet his way. he should get into a room with c-span cameras there so instead of hearing rhetoric like this, let's hear it in front of c-span cameras. if the republicans being reasonable, we'll see that. if they're not, we'll see that. got to...
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norquist's good and a couple of other folks saying allowing any revenue, any rates to increase qualifies as a tax hike. >> yeah. but that's been their position all along. that was the central issue. taxes go up on the top 2% or they don't. right? it was obama versus romney. he keep come back to this that you heard bill crystal say what the hell are we doing as a party? even tom kohl said let's buy in 98% and get it out of the way and take credit for it. why is bajner refuse to go schedule a boat on that proposal. >> obtain doesn't have the votes. simple math, this is sort of the reality of washington. >> doesn't have the votes to block it? >> he doesn't have the votes to pass any kind of tax reform from his own caucus. they operate by a rule called the majority of the majority. effectively the house republicans will do whatever the majority of their caucus says is okay with. you know, they don't have that majority. >> if they deck -- okay. i am trying to understand where boehner is coming from. right? >> yeah. >> bill: because i think this is a time for sleepered. i am say that. not you.
norquist's good and a couple of other folks saying allowing any revenue, any rates to increase qualifies as a tax hike. >> yeah. but that's been their position all along. that was the central issue. taxes go up on the top 2% or they don't. right? it was obama versus romney. he keep come back to this that you heard bill crystal say what the hell are we doing as a party? even tom kohl said let's buy in 98% and get it out of the way and take credit for it. why is bajner refuse to go schedule...
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as long as we are in the thrall of grover norquist, it'll be a rough, a long haul. host: what do you make of this process? guest: i loved senator simpson. he is such a wonderful person. i have not met anyone kinder or nicer than him who is willing to work with people on all sides. he is all about listening. people would say gets worse every year in washington. i'm a little bit of a contrarian. there is always tension. there's always a lot of pressure from both sides. what you typically have to have are these kinds of external pressures. that is what is going on today. i think there is a real issue of trust. one of the unique things is i remember the first days, and not just to talk about this. this idea that we kept most of the information within those walls. it built a sense of trust between republicans and democrats so we read able to get 60%. you have to talk to both sides. we do not do enough of that. it is a difference of opinion. the have to find common ground. host: bob is on the line from chapel hill, north carolina. caller: two specific questions. does your
as long as we are in the thrall of grover norquist, it'll be a rough, a long haul. host: what do you make of this process? guest: i loved senator simpson. he is such a wonderful person. i have not met anyone kinder or nicer than him who is willing to work with people on all sides. he is all about listening. people would say gets worse every year in washington. i'm a little bit of a contrarian. there is always tension. there's always a lot of pressure from both sides. what you typically have to...